Internet users are also shielded from much of GW reality. stephen is suffering for doing right. @ Lydia: Excellent comment! Humility? Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. @ Bob M: Mencken: No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. They knew exactly what they were buying. How can a reasonable person look past that? I hope you found some of the above helpful. (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). Did this evil plot involve the use of ninjas or leprechauns? I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. i think they ended up closing them or not being involved in them anymore, there is an american branch of them now though. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. king does not stand up for you. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. Southern Missouri . Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. Is to be- They knew exactly what they were buying. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. . What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: How much do James River Church employees make? I am always eager and willing to learn, so no argument here. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. Driscoll has been more than a jerk, he has shown the inability to hold power without abusing it. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. LOL! Ever heard a sermon about Slaying your giants? I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. From my perspective, the problem with Driscolls repentance is the same as the problem with the Chandler apology. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. Mind you I find Driscoll a tool in case I havent made that obvious. (he is still famous and worthy of famous people helping him) things you have heard about mark are not even close to true, what you read on the internet isn't true. Good luck to you Sam. Even in the Roman Catholic Church, the obvious structure does not prevent sin or other problems, so I dont think it is a matter either of too much or not enough structure making us fall short of perfection. . Nancy ( As with the dituation with John Mark mentioned in Acts, and the conflict with Peter mentioned in Galatians. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. There is a distinct period of time that must pass before you can really objectively address the damage that that place does. The sad part is that members have no idea how they are viewed unless they ask uncomfortable questions. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. I would argue the reverse. http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll. This captures precisely what I have been sensing as well. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? Totally. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. Are you not voting? He is a draw. Ill talk to you more tomorrow, so dont forget to check back! Youre not one of us. Welcome Home to Church Online! Sometimes life circumstances have to kind of help people do the right thing. LT wrote: Elders thatthat sin are to be rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I have heard Marks message several times now and have some concerns. Newer ones have theater seating or individual chairs. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. He threatened to make sure that I could never be in ministry again. The Rev. I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. Im honored that Marks here so I dont want anybody reading what Im saying as some kind of disclaimer or apology. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. I acknowledge that one persons terrorist can be another persons freedom fighter. So where is the money coming from now? Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. Mark Driscoll should not be a preacher ever again. (See screen shot from the church website. Ive seen desensitizing have the desired effect and its not pretty. This weekend GW is also doing Steven Furtick spontaneous baptism which are executed to the letter like Elevation. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. @ sam: one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. 11 The Lord told him, Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. And every Wednesay at 7pm! Albuquerque Blue reminded me of something about mark driscoll during the fall. There were a number of other worship songs that roll on after this one, if these are your taste. . I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! Same deal with Driscoll, just a different sound track. What is the biblical prescription for sinning Elders? @ sam: But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. All 6,115 words of it. Good point as far as it goes. Im not invested in liking or disliking Che so I truly welcome your comments. One of six. I am thinking visitors, right? Some are stronger and more capable of speaking out and as we feel able to I believe that we must. Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. We are passionate about . no., to forgive them prepares you to see jesus. I recently darkened the doors of a very small church in another city. It is all choreographed and it works! any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. to confer grace through the sacraments. The singles have a lot of money to be exploited as well, but churches are stuck in a rut of trying to fleece the married folks. Was that MDs evil twin Dark Miscoll who said elders who disagree with him need to be put in wood chippers or that women need to bring their men to Jesus by orally servicing them every morning whether they like it or not? Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. . Personally I am not really all that interested in what the celebrites do as in endorsing, spinning events or behavior, etc. But guess what else happened? @ Bridget: I think its much the same thing. re: Lindells article. there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. It was clear to me that Marks attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose. Reveal the conspiracy please. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. Well, we can handle the truth. In 1969, he was transferred to a church in Fairmont, W.Va. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. He needs to start small, out of the public eye, not in front of thousands. James River Church Engaged Employer Overview 38 Reviews 63 Jobs 26 Salaries -- Interviews 9 Benefits 47 Photos 12 Diversity Follow + Add a Review Employee Review See All Reviews ( 38) 2.0 Former Employee, more than 3 years Leadership not always what they portray Mar 2, 2017 - Anonymous Employee in Ozark, MO Recommend CEO Approval Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? He can be forgiven. They stay in and around the very thing that ruined them in the first place. In July they are promoting Lanes next book to the masses. I am someone special, like Jesus and Paul. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. Not a fan but many are. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. Another aspect of the way I approach this is to consider where the burden of proof lies. hes a wonderful pastor to the very end. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. I do not for one minute believe they are suddenly open. If so you may be onto something. Pews are in the old megas. They want him to go away and they want to pretend he never existed for the sake of saving those church plants. Its just too lucrative of a franchise, you dont want to lose that. rocks are flying people are shouting opposition and accusations., in christian language christians are like sheep, opponents are like wolves, alpha, saul. Any of all of that may be true. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. Of course, we have yet to determine whether there has been a real change in Mark Driscoll's life. For all the lack of American Idol production values I learned more in that one day of teaching at that little church then I did in all the years I attended Gateway. I wonder how much of this concern over gay rights is to deflect people from considering their own deficiencies. Driscoll does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a preacher. "I do not think, frankly, it is a matter of your business or Mr. Lindell's business or even my wife's business," Stephens told me. I hope you dont write off church altogether. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21 "In other words, you can believe what you want within the confines of the four walls of the church as long as you don't live it outside of the church.". Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. He saw it as bad government.". I present to you James River church in Springfield Missouri this past weekend. I hope I am wrong. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. It is a winner! Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. like i said it went away from that and i didnt look into why. At a cash price of 2600 Denarii ($210,000 in Roman money) a book? If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. "Martin Luther, the great reformer, said this: 'If you preach the gospel in all aspects with the exception of the issues which deal specifically with your time you are not preaching the gospel at all.' I cannot respect or support these men knowing that they revere such a man as a pastor. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? There was no light show. So grateful others are addressing these serious problems that plague Christendom. There is no uncertainty in that. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. the money that was supposed to be going to missionaries in another country had been intertwined with the general fund. God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. Or that they were called to be what they are. Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. Mot only do I think Driscoll is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think hes opportunistic, and because being a preacher is all he knows. 99,693 were here. Having heard MDs messages for several years now, I believe he is trying to lead people into thinking its about him. In other words, his behavior did change. or barred from the league for having too many technichal fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct and yelling at the referees for too many seasons. I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. If you become used to a certain standard of living, that does not mean you are entitled to that standard of living. You said again twice. "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. Watch LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm, and 7pm as well as every Wednesday at 7pm.